The Liquid Courage Show

Show #12 - 1792 Full Proof Bourbon Review & Sons of Anarchy “The Sleep of Babies” (S1:E12)

• The Bourbon Bros. • Episode 12

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In show #12 of The Liquid Courage Show Podcast, Ken tempts fate by returning to the 1792 bourbon. After Ken’s eventful experience with 1792 Small Batch Bourbon in Show #4, the Bourbon Brothers take things up a notch with their review of the 125 proof 1792 Full Proof Bourbon before moving into their discussion of Sons of Anarchy, Season 1, Episode 12, “The Sleep of Babies.” 


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Intro Music: Free Music & Free Beer by Alex (c) copyright 2012 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution (3.0) license.

Jon:

Welcome in We are the bourbon brothers and this is the liquid courage show. We are in the homestretch of season one and things are cold outside and heating up on Sons of Anarchy. So Ken, I am especially excited to get into tonight's episode.

Ken:

So am I this is such a good one to review. I've been looking forward to it all week. So let's get into it.

Jon:

And I do want to welcome in my co host officially once again, broadcasting deep down in the basement at Heinz Field. Ken, how are you tonight?

Ken:

Doing well. Doing well? Yeah, dee-deep here in the basement of Heinz Field, Pittsburgh, PA. So I'm ready to to knock it out of the park here.

Jon:

Excellent. Excellent. And we have another first. So last week was our first non bourbon tasting. We did a review of Bernheim original wheat whiskey. And this week is our first foolproof bourbon tasting.

Ken:

Yes it is.

Jon:

So let's jump in. If you are new to the show, The format is simple. First, we're gonna kick things off with a tasting a discussion of a spirit. It's usually a bourbon tonight, it's a foolproof bourbon. And we will continue to enjoy said spirit hopefully within moderation throughout the remainder of the show. As for the remainder of the show, we're going to focus on a specific episode of a favorite television series where we will start with the pilot, and we'll work our way through episode by episode all the way through to the series finale. Tonight we will be discussing season one episode 12 of Kurt Sutter's Sons of Anarchy titled the sleep of babies. For those of you that are listening via our podcast if you like the show, please leave us a review and a five star rating. And please remember to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss a single show. Also, if you prefer a visual medium, or you want to see why we say we have faces for radio, we also publish every show in three parts on YouTube. Also, we want to hear from you send us your praise your questions, your hate comms, let us know how we're doing what you like what you dislike and what you'd like to see more of. You can email your questions to us at ask at bourbon Bros. That's br o s.tv. And if your question doesn't suck, we might even answer it on a future show. And with all of that housekeeping out of the way, Ken, what is the full proof bourbon? We will be drinking tonight.

Ken:

All right, well, drumroll drumroll please. We're going with the 1792. foolproof. All right, Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey.

Jon:

Fantastic. Now we have already reviewed the 1792 small batch we have and now we're going to take a swing at the full proof now Can the small batch frankly, kicked your ass the first time?

Ken:

It did. It did there was an injury involved. There's some things I don't remember about that the way that wrapped up. So we're gonna try and pace ourselves tonight and Elisa, you just appreciate the flavor of the foolproof.

Jon:

Now, a foolproof is similar to but not exactly the same as cask strength. It is definitely a higher proof bourbon. And there's a couple of things that we have done to prepare for tonight's tasting that you may or may not be aware of. The first thing is we have been letting our bourbon rest. That's why Ken is not cracking a fresh bottle tonight. We actually poured this bourbon 30 to 40 minutes ago.

Ken:

Yeah, sounds about right, at 45.

Jon:

And particularly with a higher proof or in this case of foolproof bourbon that has a much higher alcohol content, letting it rest and allow some of that alcohol vapor to come off and will open up more of the flavor. And so if you've had foolproof or cask strength Bourbons before and it tasted like gasoline, because all you got was the alcohol. Definitely go back and try letting it rest for 30 minutes and trying it again. Because it definitely gets better with a little bit of resting. And then the second thing is not always but in many cases, a little bit of water goes a long way with a foolproof or a cask strength bourbon. It's one of the reasons I like them is I do prefer my bourbon on ice and I can add an ice cube and it doesn't taste watered down. So we are doing that tonight as well. We've we've each added a little bit of ice to this bourbon. And so that combination of a little bit of water which it's not just about diluting the bourbon there's there's a chemical reaction when you add water to bourbon that can bring out the flavor profile. As well as the resting so those two things combined should make this optimized for our tasting experience tonight. So, for those of you that want to partake or maybe are new to the foolproof or cask strength Bourbons, those are the two tips, let it rest, try adding a few drops of water and ice cube. We're gonna let ours chill for just a second because we just added the ice and I'll give you just kind of the download of the basic details here. So once again, it is a 1792 foolproof bourbon prices about $47 I don't know what you paid for it in pa Ken.

Ken:

Yeah. it's very close.

Jon:

Okay. classification is a straight bourbon. It does come out of the company is sasser act, but it comes out of the Barton 1792 distillery. sasak also owns Buffalo Trace. And there tends to be a lot of comparison between 1792 and Buffalo Trace distillery but I think they're 16 miles apart and do operate independently. So although it falls into the same parent company, Barton's kind of doing their own thing. Release dates on going 125 pretty, pretty strong. Pretty strong. No age statement, but I did go find the original press release, when 1792 distillery released this foolproof bourbon and it stated eight and a half years. So as long as that hasn't changed, that should be the case here. And the mashbill is undisclosed, but it's rumored to be around 75% corn 15% rye and 10% malted barley, so they're using rye instead of wheat. And but it does have that higher corn mash.

Ken:

So a little sweeter, most likely...

Jon:

Should be a little sweeter, though the rye will add some spice..

Ken:

Okay.

Jon:

...and then I'll just give you the quick summary and then we can get into the tasting. So this is right from the 1792 website.

Ken:

This is... This is marketing right here.

Jon:

It is marketing. This is the the flowery marketing speak that we get directly from the website. But we'll get a sense of how they think of it and then we'll see if we agree.

Ken:

Lay it on me.

Jon:

Bourbon insiders have long acknowledged that foolproof bourbon has a distinguished and rich flavor. This bourbon underwent a distinct filtering process forgoing the typical hill filtration and passing nly through a plate and frame ilter. This allowed the bourbon o maintain a robust proof for ottling as well as a full rich nd bold flavor. Bottled at its riginal 125 barrel entry proof ust as it was years ago when he barrels were first filled. 792 foolproof bourbon is xceptionally distinct.

Ken:

Wow. How can you argue How can you argue with that? You? You had me at chilled filtration actually.

Jon:

Which they don't do.

Ken:

They don't do it. Okay.

Jon:

Yeah, they're forgoing the typical chill filtration and they're only doing plate and frame.

Ken:

Okay.

Jon:

So, I do have a few additional fun facts to share. But we'll we'll do that after we start enjoying it. And again, just if you haven't seen our original review of 1792 I kind of cover everything about the distillery in that video and podcast. I don't want to rehash that information, so if you if you want to know more about 1792 or you're curious about knowing our review on their small batch bourbon, do go and revisit that. I'm gonna focus tonight specifically on the foolproof variety.

Ken:

Okay.

Jon:

All right. So are we ready to lift a glass Ken?

Ken:

Yeah, yeah. I'm ready.

Jon:

All right. I have my new bourbon brothers glass ready to go here.

Ken:

There it is.

Jon:

Cheers.

Ken:

Cheers. Wow, that has more of everything. It's... it's bolder.

Jon:

I'm just curious. The heat kind of comes up midway through the taste. You don't get it initially.

Ken:

Right.

Jon:

But but here's my question. When the heat came, could you feel it go all the way up into your neck?

Ken:

I did. That's exactly what happened. I was going to mention that.

Jon:

Yes, that you just feel the burn, go all the way up. And then it dissipates fairly quickly and you get all of that flavor on the back end.

Ken:

Oh, yeah. That is pretty good. It's strong.

Jon:

What's interesting, is it strong. But I'm even thinking back to when we did the review of the Elijah Craig small batch, not a foolproof or cast strength, just their standard small batch. We weren't huge fans of it and it had a burn to it. And we talked about it, it burns clean. This burns clean in a really nice way.

Ken:

Yeah.

Jon:

And it reminds me of one of my favorite cask strength Bourbons. It's always kind of been my go to is Booker's.

Ken:

Yeah.

Jon:

This is very smooth, even though it's a foolproof. And so...

Ken:

I can sense where this could be dangerous at volume.

Jon:

Oh, yes. And what was interesting to me, Ken is when I was doing some of the research and I was reminded about, particularly with this bourbon, this bourbon, I think more than a lot of other foolproof or cast strength, they really emphasize how important it is to let it rest. Which I don't always do with my view, sometimes you just want to be able to have a drink, and you you just jump right into it. But knowing that it was stressed, and a lot of different reviews that I read and articles on this, I did go down and I did a little experiment where I set up a glass and had it right out of the bottle, and then let it rest came back tried it again. And then I added a little water and tried it a third time. And that is why my recommendation was that we did what we did tonight, because letting it rest and adding a little bit of water definitely was better.

Ken:

Was it? What was different about it?

Jon:

It is much smoother. The... It lessens the burn. And yet I you actually can get more of the flavor profile. I found that before adding a little bit of water. It all you get is that burn and you lose a lot of the flavor.

Ken:

Okay.

Jon:

And so initially, I couldn't even get some of the smoke or the spice it was just that heavy, gasoline style burn.

Ken:

Right? And that's kind of what felt like to me at first. Was that gasoline?

Jon:

Yes. And and I didn't think it would need it because it was only a small batch bourbon. But I'd be curious to return to the Elijah Craig and see what would happen if we let it rest a little. Good. Good. We can try that. But I will say a few drops of water in our case and ice. Yeah, I'm doing a large ice cube that that melt slowly. And I added it after it rested for about 40 minutes. This is quite good. Yeah, it is cuz that was not my first impression when I tried it right out of the bottle.

Ken:

So you did try it out of the bottle. Interesting. I did not.

Jon:

So my recommendation to you is now that you've experienced this tomorrow or in a day or two, just take a little nip right out of the bottle. And it will be a different experience my friend.

Ken:

Okay. I'll give it a shot. Now the foolproof again, the term foolproof. That is because this is the first right out of the barrels right? Before any Yeah, so cut it down or anything agent further.

Jon:

So there's kind of two combinations. There's what they call cask strength, and then foolproof. Booker's for instance is cask strength. And that's after it ages, whatever it comes out of the barrel. And you'll sometimes hear referred to as barrel proof. Yeah. And that's where you'll see it very, like, I think one of the Booker's we had was like 116.3. And then the next one you get is like 122. And, and that's because it depends on how much evaporation in that specific barrel. So because you're always so it's going in at 125. But then there's some level of evaporation and so the proof can go down. foolproof, they're bringing that back up to 125.

Ken:

Okay,

Jon:

so it's that maximum proof for bourbon versus your barrel or cast strength where it's going to be some variation based on the amount of evaporation.

Ken:

Gotcha. An explanation.

Jon:

All right. Should we hit the mailbag before we move into the episode? Yeah, let's do it. So on our YouTube channel, we had a this is more of a comment versus a question but I thought it was worth discussing. There's another YouTube channel called bourbon of the week and they left us a comment on our channel regarding our review the eagle rare and I thought the comment was interesting and and it was it expressed a sentiment that I had shared which was, if you remember the eagle rare bottle and if you have it behind And it's easily reachable. You might even want to grab it. But we we've talked about the fact that Eagle rare is a 10 year bourbon. Yeah. And we even put it up against the Russell's. And we've talked about the Russell's 10. year. And if you look at the Russell's that 10 year age statements pretty prominent. Yeah, but you, you can't hardly find it on the equal rare bottle. And so that was kind of what bourbon OF THE WEEK references they said. The fact that they don't broadcast the 10 year on the bottle is wild to me. With how crazy everyone goes over age, it should be all over it. Love me some Eagle rare Cheers.

Ken:

That's a good point, because that's what I look at how old is this? You know, can I can absolutely. You know, the older the expensive?

Jon:

What can you afford? An eagle rare also is I think a 17 year and that's very prominent. And so I did a little bit of digging. And and I'd actually shared this with bourbon of the week, but I thought some of our other viewers and listeners would benefit from it. So generally, when you see a brand, make an age statement less prominent on the bottle, it's generally an indication that they plan to change or drop the age statement.

Ken:

So they don't want to have to commit to doing that always. And this means

Jon:

that they're likely no longer it's no longer going to be a 10 year.

Ken:

Okay. So they want flexibility and change. Yeah. So

Jon:

it reminds me of like when when Datsun went to Nissan, right? And and Datsun was very big and prominent. They made Nissan very small, and then they swapped it. And Nissan was very big and Datsun was very small, and they dropped Datsun altogether.

Ken:

That's going way back, way back.

Jon:

So the fact that you, you have to look for the 10 year age statement could be an indication that they may not necessarily be aging at 10 years in the future, they may go to eight and a half, seven. And that could just be from demand. They don't want to have to wait 10 years to get bottled and into production. And word on the street is Buffalo Trace distillery who produces Eagle rare has committed to keeping the 10 year age statement through 2024. Okay. But the fact that they only committed through 2024 is another indication that they're at least considering a change, or you commit indefinitely or longer. Yeah. So the fact that they haven't committed past 2024 to me is another indication that they're considering to change. And so for all four of our fans that watch or listen to the show, that may or may not be an indication that you should go and set a few extra bottles aside before 2024.

Ken:

We have forced I thought we were up to 10.

Jon:

Well, we might be up to 10 now but you know, this is why it pays to listen to the liquid courage show where you You heard it here first. Go get some Eagle rare 10 year lay those bottles down because it may not be 10 year bourbon after the next couple years. Well,

Ken:

I couldn't find I think I wiped my bottle out last time. I couldn't find any on the shelf here. So I need to pick up the bottle myself.

Jon:

Oh, you're right. I think when we did the comparison, you poured your last straw that was it. So there you go. Can you've got a finite couple of years to go out and get your your tenure bourbon?

Ken:

I'll make it happen.

Jon:

All right. And then Ben s asked in. This is an interesting question. I know can you and I have talked about this quite a bit offline. So it'd be interesting to have this conversation now on the show, but Ben s asked Did you know that the guys that played Jewson TIG are also doing a Sons of Anarchy podcast? Yes, we do. And I've been listening to both shows, and they're great, but I'm liking yours better because you go in order. Keep up the good work. Oh, Ben. Ben, Ben. Ben. flattery will get you everywhere my friend. That can that's probably the highest praise we will ever get.

Ken:

Yeah, I agree.

Jon:

I think we peaked and it's all downhill from here. But But in all seriousness, Ben's referring to the theory podcast by Theo Rossi, who who played juice or tea on the show and Kim coats who played tic trigger. And and their podcast is unbelievable. If you haven't checked it out, it is an absolute must. It is and the fact that we're even being mentioned in the same sentence as the is a An honor that we're frankly not worthy of. And, and look, we're never going to be able to compete with what they're able to bring to the show. They lived it, they created it. They're stars of the show. And as I've said before, we have no experience or discernible talent. So they definitely have an edge on us. However, they're providing you the perspective of what it was like to create it. And I and I find that fascinating, and I enjoy watching the show myself. But we're providing the fan perspective. And that's different. And so we're not ever going to be able to compete with them. We're not trying to be them. And we're frankly doing a different show. But we think that if you're a fan of Sons of Anarchy, you should watch and listen to both. Because it's two different perspectives. And we do go in order. We are literally going episode by episode through the entire series

Ken:

such definitely Can you can you imagine what it must be like to have lived through that experience? I mean, they bring a lot to the table. Whenever I watch their show. It's just just amazing.

Jon:

And the things you learn about what was going on and decisions that were being made, and I watched one episode where Kim coats shared, how he got hired to do Sons of Anarchy. And it was unbelievable. He literally got hired the day before they started shooting. It's it's fascinating show and look. I'm huge fans of both Theo and Kim. They seem to be great people. Theo has been, I don't even know if he knows who the hell we are. But he's retweeted a few of our tweets and been especially kind to us. And so we're huge fans of theirs and can't recommend them enough. Okay, let's get into tonight's discussion of Sons of Anarchy season one episode 12 titled the sleep of babies. Original air date November 19 2008. And this one was written by Kurt Sutter, you can you definitely can get the sense Kurt's coming back in to wrap up season one, which I love. And so he wrote this episode, and it is a good one.

Ken:

Yeah, I mean, I am I was so impressed when I watch this again, you can make I didn't realize that, that he had come back to write this one. But well done. Well done.

Jon:

Yeah, there's gonna be a lot to unpack. Ken and I talked before we went live. And we always have our list of notes of things we want to talk about. And Ken I think we could have done a two to three hour show tonight that there's so much to unpack.

Ken:

Yeah, there is.

Jon:

But we're gonna we're gonna ultimately we're we're gonna have to make some tough calls, leave some great moments out of the conversation and focus on some of the best but it's definitely a show worth watching. And if it's been a while since you've seen it, it's one worth going back and watching. At the same time, it's a hard one to watch. So with that, let's cover the synopsis and then we'll we'll dig into some main storylines and get into some of those favorite moments. In terms of the synopsis, April's finally healthy enough to return home. Wendy discovers that Jax and Tara have hooked up and puts two and two together to realize that Gemma is now using her to create a wedge between Jax and Tara. With no guns to sell and no cash to pay for Bobby's legal defense. Clay makes the decision to sell the club's own guns to the Mayans. Clay and tiggs again this is a reference to last week's show claimed tigs star chamber hit on Opie is orchestrated to take place during the gun deal. Clay makes alternate arrangements with Laurel a leader of the one Niners TIG becomes conflicted, but is afraid to admit it to clay. Talk about that. Feeling guilty that stoles actions are framed and innocent man Hale confides in unser. At April's homecoming Tara feels threatened by windy and a high school love triangle and Sue's opiate his family leave the homecoming party unaware that star chamber attempt number two is planned for the drive home. You really do have to watch every show. unser shows up at the party and tells clay that Opie is innocent clay attempts to call off the hit but TIG misses the call. And Opie pays the price. What do we mean there? And with tensions high in Jax distraught with grief, Wendy makes her move. Right. So Ken, what were your overall impressions of the episode?

Ken:

Yeah, as I as I said, there, it was just so well written. You're on the edge of your seat the whole time. Near the end, which we'll get to your heart's pumping, you feel something's going to happen. And when it gets closer, and you start putting these things together, just it's very entertaining, very drawn in there. It's how you read read through that I didn't put together that Bobby was nowhere to be found. Bobby Elvis was nowhere in the episode. Was he?

Jon:

No. No, he was arrested. He's, he's in the tank. Yeah.

Ken:

No, we're nowhere near. But I thought this was one of the better ones I've seen so far. Probably the best one I've seen so far.

Jon:

Yeah, it's definitely a good one. Yeah, and not for, for reasons of comedy. It's just from a dramatic show that is packed with so many great moments. Yeah, it's

Ken:

not comedy. It's definitely not comedy. But you don't feel depressed. It's just entertaining. watching everything that's going on and, and how it's playing out. And we'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah, I don't want to get ahead of myself.

Jon:

And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but last week, we had the introduction of obese mother, right, Gary Wesley. But I don't believe there are any new characters this week.

Ken:

Perhaps?

Jon:

Oh, I know who you're referring to. Yes. Yeah. Which technically, I think there was an appearance once before.

Ken:

I didn't, I didn't really pay as much attention to it then as I did now. Okay, we can get to that as well. All right. So

Jon:

let's, let's put a pin in it. We'll talk about a new semi new character as we get a little further into our discussion, but I think you're right, there's a recurring character that needs to be discussed. Keep it a mystery. Okay. All right. Let's cover the main storylines and make sure you keep me honest here in case there's anything I missed, but at a high level. Kind of the main storylines for the episode is able coming home. Clay and TIG planning the head on op is centralized to this episode. Sam crow needed money to fund Bobby's defense. Sam crows decision to sell guns to the Mayans or their guns and then clay attempting to double cross Alvarez in that gun sale. And then kind of the ongoing storylines that that play a fairly major role in this episode is stall continuing to pursue Sam Crow and continue continuing the things that she put in motion last episode where she set up Opie as a rat. You have the ongoing issue of Jax and Tara and their relationship and then Gemma trying to do everything she can to drive a wedge between Jackson Tara Yeah, and then with last episode, you've now added Wendy into the mix as well.

Ken:

And that about covers it.

Jon:

All right. So let's get into the episode and dig into some of the key moments. I'm going to let you kick things off. Where do you want to start? Well,

Ken:

for me it did have to be right at the right at the cold open from from the beginning with the down to the the soundtrack that they use in this episode. They use it again if the close but the forever young by Audrey Mae, the Forest Rangers. It's just it's just well done it. It opens up in there the panning from character to character and where they're at and what they're doing. And to me they're focusing in on on family. What things are important. They show they show Jack's in bed with Tara. Waking up, they show Gemma and clay Gemma's talking to the bird and if you recall clay clay says sometimes I think sometimes I think you love that bird more than me and Gemma says sometimes I do. (laughter). And..

Jon:

Which is very honest about a relationship.

Ken:

Sure. And it cuts over to LP and his family and the kids in bed and they're they're waking up you know on the morning maybe we could morning perhaps and then it even even pans over to fatigue and Bobby and juice and they're there at the club right teller motors and they have found their entertainment for the evening. Let's leave it at that house companion companion. But just just the way it was done it to me I felt like it was kind of heartfelt and it was kind of Hey, this this is what's important. family's important.

Jon:

Yeah, it I certainly don't want to diminish. The incredible work that that Kurt Sutter does as a whole on the show, but I have to say he just knocks it out of the park with his openings and closings. The way he opens an episode and closes an episode is just genius.

Ken:

Yeah, totally agreed.

Jon:

And obviously, the title of the episode is the sleep of babies. And so the episode opens and closes with sleep. Your does, right, so ties in. And there's both a poetic and metaphoric aspect to what you see in that opening. And what you see in the closing and what's transpired over the course of the episode.

Ken:

Yeah, just well done. I don't think I mentioned piny piny in his opening,

Jon:

but a great scene. Just a great way to break up what was essentially up until this point of very tender,

Ken:

it was tender. It wasn't getting heavy, but it was tender. And then then it brought a little more comedy when you saw, you know, taken it and then when it cut over to Piney and he's just he wakes up and sees the lady that's in bed with him shooting up some heroin. He just beats her out of there. It was it was funny. It lightened it up a bit. Poor Piney. Fine.

Jon:

And then I think it wraps up really with windy and Abel. Kind of gearing up for April's release. Yeah. Yeah,

Ken:

great open just well done.

Unknown:

Yep, absolutely. So Well,

Ken:

did you have any other thoughts on on that topic?

Jon:

No, I was gonna shift gears and kind of move into really what sets up the entire episode, which is when the club is in church.

Ken:

Yeah, you got to do that. Very important.

Jon:

Yes. And help me out here because there's a lot to be covered here. Sure. Overall, what you basically got is clay is explained to the club, that they don't have any guns to sell, right? They're still waiting on shipments from the Irish. They basically don't have any money. And they can't afford Bobby's to pay Bobby's attorney. And so they need money, and they need it fast.

Ken:

Right. Now. There's, there's a, this is this. This is setting up the scenario. Yes. But there's a carryover from the prior episode where were taking play decide that they have to take Opie out because he's a wrestler.

Jon:

So yeah,

Ken:

this is this is clay, pulling the strings and setting the foundation to what needs to occur to make that happen.

Jon:

That's right. That's right. So so you have clay needing to raise money for Bobby. And you're right. The scenario that he creates to get that money is also a setup to create an opportunity for TIG to kill Opie. And so what clay comes up with is they The club has their own guns for protection. And those guns are for them. It is for them to be able to protect themselves their stock. Yeah, it's their stock and, and clay is advocating that they sell those guns.

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Jon:

That in and of itself. Everybody understands. They're on board with again reluctantly, but they're on board with however to your point. There's also the issue of clay and TIG star chamber. Yeah. Right. So the way that clay is organizing it, and it's smart on clays part, right, everybody's worried about the risk. And so clay says we're going to do it smart,

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Jon:

And then as part of that, he organizes it so that TIG and Opie go to one drop and clay and Jack's go to the other. And clay and TIG have obviously conspired and TIG is planning to take out Opie and make it look like

Ken:

casualty of the battle.

Jon:

That's right casualty of the battle. So it will look like a Mayan has taken them out. Or as we'll soon learn a little bit later without giving too much away. The Niners take them out, right? Yeah, right. So it will look like an accident. Right? Or at least not coming from the club. So the problem is there's a wrench thrown into this plan with Piney

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Jon:

Obviously Piney did not know the reason they didn't want him was because

Ken:

they're gonna try to kill OPI, just between the two of them. It was just an attempt for clay to control and stage was coming.

Jon:

Yes. And did you see the look from Jack's when clay kind of assigned this? I did trivial. Aaron to piny it was just utter confusion.

Ken:

Right? There's a Felix from Jackson this episode that I that we'll get to that?

Jon:

Yes. This was the first one. And it was this confusion of like, more people are always better. Like why wouldn't we want to have piny there? And ultimately, I think it leads to Jack's putting two and two together and figuring this thing out.

Ken:

Yeah. Well, let's let's keep it moving forward here. I think the next thing that stands out to me is when play visits stall at the police station. Ah, yes, he shows up and h challenges stal

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Ken:

He's really trying to make an appearance to portray to stall that they don't believe that it'll be right is ratted on them. So that if something were to happen to Opie that they wouldn't be going after clay, right? Yes.

Jon:

And this is where this is one of the things I love about when Kurt Sutter writes the episode. He is fantastic at writing scenes where he doesn't dumb it down for you. Right he doesn't beat you over the head with an explanation. This scene happens you could watch it you could be entertained by it. And you don't necessarily know why that scene was in the episode or why it's important because they're not gonna stop and explain it to you. But you're 100% right. This is all about clay. Having plausible deniability around Opie's death,

Ken:

it's just a layup. Just a layup. It's just Yep. He and I watched it and I'm like, okay, so there's a little bit of taunting and a little bit of, you know, great acting with an agent stall in him. But, you know, cut from that scene, and I'm like, Yeah, okay. But now looking back, you see, you see what was really going on there?

Jon:

Yes, yes. And so now, he's kind of telegraphed to stall. Like, I'm not buying it. Even though he does, he's gonna kill Opie because of it. He's letting stall know that he's not falling for it. He doesn't buy it. He knows that. He's not a rat. And now when Obi turns up dead, they're not gonna think clays involved.

Ken:

Right. Just thought he stood out as me looking back as is a notable scene.

Jon:

Yep. Yep, I agree. It's an important one. And it shows you that clay. Like this is all premeditated.

Ken:

Lots of chess chess playing going on there. Throughout this episode.

Jon:

Just well written. Alright, can't I can't wait any longer. All right. Where are you going to introduce our new recurring care?

Ken:

All right.

Jon:

Let's see. So Gemma runs across a homeless woman.

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Jon:

Yeah. And so they have a little conversation. And you're right Gemma ultimately gives her money and says, you know, I'm hoping this is ultimately really going to go to your kids and not in your arm. And as Gemma starts to walk away, the homeless woman makes a comment.

Ken:

And this I picked up on. So go ahead. I'm not gonna go ahead lay it out there.

Jon:

Well, if you pick up on it now,

Ken:

I'm not going to take this one away. I'm gonna do it now you're gonna do it. But I picked up on it, I rewound it. I'm dating myself, but I replayed that. And it was real. So I thought I heard it really hurt.

Jon:

So who is coming home today? April, April. And so it's Gemma turns and walks away. The homeless woman says

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Ken:

it makes it look pajama. Like she didn't hear what she thought she'd heard. But she did. Yes. She she heard what she heard. So I'm like, What's going on here? And who is this woman?

Jon:

Now, as you hinted at, at the beginning of the show, this is the introduction of a recurring character.

Ken:

Yes, we know that. This way. We know you've seen this before. Others may not have some might. But this is to me, this is the introduction.

Jon:

And my question to you is do you remember when you actually started to identify her as recurring?

Ken:

Now to me, it's now no late last time through and this time through?

Jon:

Yeah, the first time?

Ken:

I don't I don't I don't remember. It's very, very,

Jon:

go. Wait a minute. We've seen her before.

Ken:

Very subtle, though. It's

Jon:

Yes. This is this is almost a throwaway scene. It's like, as soon as it's over you forget about Yeah, what's significant here that

Ken:

why would I Why did this happen? Forget

Jon:

it, it's not germane to the story. So by the end of the episode, you forgotten all about right?

Ken:

There's other stuff going on here.

Jon:

But then she turns up again. And we're gonna slow play this the way Kurt did. Like, if you've not watched the series, we're not giving anything away. You're gonna take this ride with Kurt. And we're gonna slow play this hand all the way through the series. But this is like it's like a little easter egg wrapped up in the show. And all I'll say is, if you're one of our four or now 10 fans watching the show, and if you're watching Sons of Anarchy for the first time, pay attention to this character.

Ken:

Yeah. Great point.

Jon:

I wish someone had told me that. Yeah, the first time I watched it,

Ken:

so so that so do I. But that's

Jon:

all we're gonna say for now. Yeah, put a pin in that. That's right. So let's move on to I think really the, I think one of the key storylines of this episode, which is we're gonna sell guns to the Mayans. Right? Right, The Reluctant sale. But clay has even more up his sleeve.

Ken:

Yeah. So take us through that. Well, Clay clay decides he needs to meet up with Leroy in the one liners, and have a discussion about helping to squash the deal that he's just created. Which threw me at first. Yes, yeah. So he's like it through TIG. Which is, which is great, because you don't expect that from him. But he saw the ROI. And he tells him was giving you worry,

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Ken:

And you know, Leroy was kind of like what he's like, Yeah, but that's why I'm here. We're here to talk. It's not gonna happen. This is where the deal is gonna go down. I need you to help me. Squash this deal. You need to be at both sites. Here's the address dresses. I'm going to take out Alvarez. You can take out the rest. You can, you can have the guns. I'll keep the money that the Mayans paid. So they're both square there. They both get what they want.

Jon:

Well, he's basically saying you're gonna get guns for free.

Ken:

Yeah. And I'm gonna get the money. And he's gonna, he's gonna get back at Alvarez.

Jon:

And you're gonna wipe out the Mayans and gain more territory like this is we're both benefiting from it. Right.

Ken:

And he's trying glace trying to make it align with his other plan, which is for our chamber, yeah, Star chamber. So he wants it all to go down. He wants. He wants to be able to kill Alvarez. He wants them to be able to hightail it out of there. And then the niners roll in and do their magic, right?

Jon:

That's right. That's right. He wants all the suns free and clear, and that he wants the niners to roll in and kill as many miles as possible, right?

Ken:

And when I'm listening, it sounds like a very well thought out plan. It's like, Wow, I didn't see this is brilliant. You know, this is this is great.

Jon:

Well, not only that, but what I liked about it is and I hadn't mentioned it before. But last episode clay makes this deal with Alvarez right? To sell guns. Yeah. Right. When they're when they're in the sell, right, and so this is kind of the continuation of that. But the thing that I always had an issue with is look at the grudge clay held against his own prospect for simply referring to his wife as a mill.

Ken:

Mm hmm.

Jon:

And now you've got Alvarez who tried to kill him. And he's like, yeah, we can shake hands and be friends.

Ken:

I don't get it.

Jon:

Like it didn't make sense to me. And to hear you see, oh, he's not shaking hands and making friends he's holding that grudge he can sell for us

Ken:

he's gonna come back it's gonna come back

Jon:

to try to have his cake and eat it too. Right write in the way he set it up is brilliant. right because his whole thing with Alvarez is any beef falls in favor of Sam crow right? By having the niners come in and kill them. That all still stays

Ken:

it doesn't fall back on the closet fall

Jon:

back you can see I'm crow but clay still gets the revenge she wants. Yeah. It's it's really

Ken:

an after and after Leeroy agrees as they're walking away. Take us like

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Jon:

And we clay explains it takes like, I like it.

Ken:

I get it. I like it.

Jon:

Alright, Ken, let's get into the back half of this episode. things really start to get good here. Yeah, I could see this running really long here. So keep us on pace here.

Ken:

I'm going to pour a little bit more just a little bit more. This. This is exceptional flavor is foolproof. And this this episode, demands foolproof.

Jon:

It really does demand foolproof. So you pour, I'll get us going on this next one. And it's really a continuation of what we're just talking about. Right? CLAY has met with Leroy, he set up a double cross on Alvarez. And again, you've got two locations, right one for the money drop one for the gun drop. And you've got TIG and Opie going to do the money drop? Money pickup or gun drop.

Ken:

He's there to drop. Yeah.

Jon:

So they're gonna do the gun drop in TIG goes into that scenario, knowing that his real job is to kill Opie and make it look like it was from someone else. Right, whether that was from the mine, so the niners and when they walk in, it's a warehouse. And there are things in the warehouse can and TIG immediately kind of freezes up. And Opie is looking at him like what's wrong key is freaked out. It's, it's like some people have that fear of clowns to it's like the same thing. clowns, it's

Ken:

all absolutely it's the same thing. Yeah. Earlier earlier, I said there wasn't a lot of comedy in this episode. That's another subtlety here. Because this moment, it's a rare moment is here.

Jon:

And so, so TIG is worthless. At this point. He's completely freaked out. He can't concentrate. He can't see anything other than dolls.

Ken:

He can't calculate. But his his plan is is foiled.

Jon:

It's going down the tube in a hurry. Because when when shit goes down, and all of that action starts to happen, the dolls close in on and tag is trying to literally hide in like he's he's turned into a little kit. Yeah, who just wants it to stop and in that moment, takes about to die. So you end up with a scenario where TIG is feeling very vulnerable because he's scared shitless of the goals. Wow, he knows that as he surveys what's just happened. He knows that he would have been shot and killed. But he was saved by Opie. And so now as Opie has turned his back to TIG and is focused on other threats in the warehouse tags Got a clear shot. But now it's somebody who just saved your life. Mm hmm. Yeah, it can't do it.

Ken:

He can't even in that moment, he can't do it.

Jon:

This is what I love about TIG. He's constantly off one dimensional now

Ken:

is complex.

Jon:

It's really hard to take a sociopathic killer and, and make an audience root for and cheer and love that character.

Ken:

And you totally do.

Jon:

How can he not is so entertaining? And that's Kim coat so well acted. He does such a brilliant job with that. Because there are times where TIG is despicable. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And yet you still love the guy.

Ken:

Yeah, you look past it.

Jon:

And and that is just the brilliance of Kim coats.

Ken:

Yeah, just so well done. I love watching them. very entertaining. But after that all unfolds. He can't go through with the kill the club guests together right and he realized that they potentially made a big mistake like they could have lost their whole gun sale. customer base.

Jon:

Yeah, this is a meanwhile back at the Batcave. Right? Right? They've all reassembled at the clubhouse, licking their wounds. And and having to now pivot.

Ken:

They could end up broke with no guns.

Jon:

Yep. And you ultimately end up with the moment where after everyone else leaves, it's just taken clay. You still have the issue. Opie's alive,

Ken:

showpiece alive, and clay is now playing.

Jon:

What star chamber still needs to happen.

Ken:

What can we do? What can we do? We got to shift gears.

Jon:

Yes. So take us through what clay comes up with?

Ken:

Well, as I recall that because of what happened there left thinking that the niners double cross them.

Jon:

Yes. So is the double cross of the double cross.

Ken:

Yeah, which they did, which is entertaining in itself. But claves figures that, hey, if we can figure out a way to make it look like a Niner came into charming and took out Opie, that we may be able to do it here in charming.

Jon:

That's right. So he suggests

Ken:

he suggests a drive by shooting. And his comment was and I love it.

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Ken:

You know, if you fast forward to what happens? I think he does that he he achieves that?

Jon:

Yes, he does. Yes, he does. And we'll talk about that. What I find interesting is TIG had an opportunity to say hey, before we go full star chamber on op, like this guy just saved my life. Are we sure he's the rat. We think he is. Right. And TIG doesn't have that conversation doesn't disclose that information. Right, which is, which is an interesting choice that he makes. Yeah, he's

Ken:

at least he covered me. He's got that commandment.

Jon:

That's right. And generally, if somebody's turning state's evidence, they're not murdering people with zero hesitation. Yeah, the way he did. So it would make sense that you kind of question is this guy, or rat? Yeah. And yet TIG ultimately decides not to share that information.

Ken:

Yeah, he's caught in between the club and what his feelings are with LP. Yes.

Jon:

Yes. So let's get to the real crux in kind of crescendo of tonight's episode, which is really set up by clay, telling TIG, we're gonna kill Opie at the end of the party.

Ken:

Make a gangster

Jon:

in TIG follows Opie and Donna and the kids out of the party. And he leaves ahead of them to go set up for what will ultimately be the hit. And then ob calls inaudible Yeah,

Ken:

he he leaves on his bike. Right. He leaves.

Jon:

Take care.

Ken:

And then Opie changes. Thanks.

Jon:

Yes. So Donna, and again. I love this is what makes the episode so hard. Donna has been digging her heels in and fighting and fighting and it's in this episode. Where you finally see everything is good.

Ken:

Yeah, I saw it. Midway through the episode. I saw it a little bit in the last episode, where there's finally that support and acceptance from Donna.

Jon:

So you're just Like yes finally right? Yes you want so much for Opie and then Dawn is even going further now we're like I want to come back and help Gemma clean up. Thank you coming right home.

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Jon:

And so ultimately what happens is they trade cars they train cars. Donna gets into Opie's truck so that she can go buy dish soap and come back and help Gemma and OB gets in Donna's car to take the kids home and put them to bed. But even that's not all the plot thickens, because on top of that, Hale has confided in an answer that stall set all of this up. unser comes to the party and tells clay

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Jon:

It's not working. And Hudson is been around the block enough to know what happens in these situations.

Ken:

And that's why he's there and telling clay he's trying to prevent Opie from being killed. He knows something's gonna happen. And soon and soon, and just the way he went. When Gemma sees what he's struggling with. And asked him he can't. He's like, lost in thought.

Jon:

Yeah, he's like, Oh, shit. It's a controlled panic. Yeah, and TIG is dead set on righting the wrong from the warehouse. Yeah. And I think ultimately, what happens is because of what happened in the warehouse, and the fact that he froze up. Normally, TIG would be the kind of person that would look in the eye before he killed you. And he can't do it with ob. And that is ultimately why he doesn't know it's not ob in the truck.

Ken:

He just assumes

Jon:

that so be struck. And then after he's done, he pulls up to make sure that OPI is dead and discovers it's done. It's done.

Ken:

He hightails it out.

Jon:

It was and this is again we go back to the fact that Kim coats creates a character like this you actually care for you feel bad for tech.

Ken:

That's strange, isn't it?

Jon:

Isn't that weird? Like you you've no this is gonna just wreck tick that this has happened that he's not going to take this lightly.

Ken:

I mean you feel bad feel bad for you feel bad for ob too but you really feel bad for TIG you feel bad for him?

Jon:

And I just find that incredibly interesting that in a scenario like that you don't hate him. You feel bad for

Ken:

great pickup. I great acting.

Jon:

So take us through the aftermath Ken

Ken:

Oh, I just I just felt the the emotion the way that they're back at the scene.

Jon:

Which I think between this is a commercial break. There might be back row commercial and now it's it's quote unquote, the aftermath.

Ken:

Yeah. So take hightails out of there in the in the Range Rover. And they end up back there and everyone's there. Like everyone's at the scene. He just all shows up sponsors their hails there. Everyone's there. It's just just the pain. Just you see, Donna, Donna, they're on the ground. They've got sheets wrapped around, are they any got Opie showing up there.

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Ken:

He always fear, you know, as a spouse as a parent, like what? The worst case scenario of something like this happening, that's what's unfolding here. And just my heart was pumping. It was just traumatic, just just what you would expect. Just reaction on an obese face. He acted that very well.

Jon:

He absolutely did. And it's one of those scenes where I think you could you could rewatch it 10 times and pick new things up every time.

Ken:

Yeah, it was just I can't I wonder how long that took the shoot because that was just incredible. I mean, clays there. Yeah, he sees a mistake. He feels a way to what's occurred.

Jon:

Because this is all his do. It's his doing right. And yes, Ryan Hurst who plays Opie just Well, I felt like he lost his wife. It just was so real. It was so raw, was so authentic. You feel the pain that Jax has not just for the loss of Donna but you feel the pain that He has for knowing what his friend is going through with him. cares deeply about. You get the look that Jax gives to clay.

Ken:

Okay, we'll get back get to the look when when Jax looks at clay he knows like he feels like there's no way you're not involved in this. Yeah, he doesn't know what happened per se you this is you this is all you in a blood is on you.

Jon:

I don't know what or how, but I know you're involved.

Ken:

Yep. And also there was a cut I don't know if you caught this there's a pan over to Hale and he's standing there looking and just expressions on his face. He didn't say much at first. But he immediately when I saw him I put together like he's not surprised at all that this event has occurred he didn't know exactly what but he knew something was going down that night. And then you got good old agent stall she shows up on the scene and center boss whether is that it was whether that hailed deck laid out?

Jon:

No I think it was somebody that worked kind of subordinate

Ken:

for each install. Because they were pulling out a charming right because of what happened overnight

Jon:

and I love when hailed deck dumb.

Ken:

Yeah, it was great.

(Show Clip):

[Clip from show]

Ken:

backoff Hill.

Jon:

I love how Hale very clearly confront stall and tell her that it's her fault.

Ken:

But yeah, the Bloods on her.

Jon:

Yep. She is all on you.

Ken:

And if you if you remember this, but no one's really around. But Stahl looks at Donna's dead body. And actually this is the moment apologizes apologize to her.

Jon:

And ultimately you have Jax kind of wrapping up and being there to kind of help move him away from that situation. And then you've got TIG who has to come and act like he doesn't know what's going on. And I just cannot imagine for one second. Being in those shoes.

Ken:

Yeah. And how hard that would be? Yeah.

Jon:

So share share with me your final thoughts on the episode? Yeah, I

Ken:

mean, I just thought it was extremely powerful. One of the best that so far. Least top three maybe I mean, that may be top one or two. It? You don't. It's hard to watch. But yet, it was entertaining. So I can't explain that. But yeah, I thought it was very well done. I really enjoyed this.

Jon:

Yeah, I think if there's anybody that is maybe discovering this show for the first time, and you're going through it with us, and this is as far as you've gotten. The thing that I think back to is when it's all said and done, and you've gone all seven seasons.

Ken:

This is one of the episodes you talk about. It is I got a few more in my head, but we'll just leave those for another day. Yes,

Jon:

there's more. There's more. But this is one this is a standard talk about

Ken:

this is a standout.

Jon:

This is a turning point. And it's a standout. So which brings us to next week's show where Ken we're at the finale.

(Show Clip):

Really? Are we really?

Jon:

We will be discussing Episo e 13 titled, The Revel tor.

Ken:

The Revelator. It has been while since I've seen this, Th Revelator

Jon:

This. So if you think about writing a show, where you're gonna go all the way through to the season finale, and then it's gonna be six to nine months before Season Two comes along. The number one thing you want to do is make sure that after that long break, they come back. Yeah, sure. So you need a strong finale. And that was where they invented things like the cliffhanger. Okay, okay. We don't get a traditional cliffhanger here. yet. The moment this episode ends, you immediately want to go to season two, episode one. Okay. And I'm glad we get to do that. Like after next week's show, we're gonna go a week and we're gonna be into season two, episode one. I am so glad that we're not actually going to have to wait six or nine months. for season two to come back. That would have driven me up the wall. All right. But next week's episode is strong.

Ken:

The revelator the revelator this was strong, so I can't I can't wait to see it again.

Jon:

Oh, you just wait my friend. All right. And that brings us to our second most important question of the night and this is a big one. What are we going to Drake for the finale?

Ken:

I think both of us have longbranch in our inventory.

Jon:

So why don't you hold longbranch? Why don't we crack that? Now? Have you had longbranch?

Ken:

I have not.

Jon:

It's not either.

Ken:

I'm sure it's back there somewhere. But

Jon:

do you know anything about longbranch?

Ken:

I think Matthew McConaughey is evolved, correct?

Jon:

Yes. So this is an interesting one. So in 2016, so long branches made by wild turkey. I spotted it a little quick, fun fact. There it is.

Ken:

We'll be cracking it.

Jon:

So 20 in 2016, wild turkey hired Matthew McConaughey, the actor, right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right, take my shirt off, that Matthew McConaughey. And they hired him as their creative director, which was kind of a hot thing a few years ago, where people were hiring celebrities to kind of be this their creative director and spokesperson. And so they hired Matthew McConaughey. And so he said, I don't want, I don't want to just be like the spokesperson or the face of a campaign. I want to be more involved. And so two years later, they launched longbranch bourbon. And again, it comes out a wild turkey. But this is one where supposedly, Matthew McConaughey got involved with the team at wild turkey. He tasted different Bourbons. And this is kind of the culmination of all the different things that they tried and this was his favorite. And so we're gonna crack that open next week. And enjoy that for the finale of season one.

Ken:

All right, let's do it.

Jon:

Alright, sounds good to me. And that's gonna do it for tonight show. We hope you enjoyed tonight's show. And we hope you had as much fun as we did. One final reminder, please, for those of you watching on YouTube, do remember to like and subscribe, check out our channel for more shows. Leave a comment again. Every week we're trying to do our best to to bring a good entertaining show for you. But keep in mind, we have no experience of discernible talent. We don't know what the hell we're doing. Zero Tell Your feedback is incredibly helpful. And for those listening to the podcast, even though we have no experience to discernible talent, we still want you to give us a five star rating. We want you to give us a glowing review. We want you to share this with your friends, your family, your mortal enemies, we don't care. Help us get the word out. And then be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future shows. But most of all, I know I say it every week, but we really do mean it. Ken and I talk about this on a weekly basis. We really do thank all four to 10 of you for showing up. And joining us for tonight's show. And we do hope you'll join us here each and every week on the liquid courage show. Good night, everyone.